Game CG and related tags

Posted under General

previous: topic #21273, topic #20917, topic #15647

In a recent attempt to fix game cg, I modified its wiki to specify its usage on visual-novel-cutscene-styled illustrations only, because I noticed that people are starting to tag tachi-e as game cg. This has never been resolved but it's seemingly getting worse.

For utility purposes, only use this tag for traditional visual-novel-styled story CGs. For other types of game assets, use other tags like tachi-e instead. Likewise, the tag only considers the format of the art, and not the source. As in, an illustration used as a CG should always be tagged as such, whether it's extracted from the game or found through other sources.

The change was later reverted by @nyom, which I expected. I was mostly testing, I planned to bring this to discussion again sooner or later, but kept putting it on hold, which I'm doing now. Ironically, the clause I removed

Note: Do not use this tag if an image is from an artists' social media rather than extracted from a game, even if the artwork can be found in a game.

was also proposed by me in forum #212963. When game cg, specifically its predecessor game asset, was first purposed, its intend was to catch game extractions because they're sourceless. Let's be honest, this makes no sense in retrospect. Non-web source exists. It's not how the tag is functioning currently either. The majority of game CG nowadays, aka. mobile games, are from game wikis. When people look for game cg, they want to see illustrations used in a game, it doesn't matter where the file is from. I should have realized it during the previous discussion, but at least we can fix it now.

The other issue, as mentioned, is how we never really defined these game file tags, causing them to be applied solely based on each user's own interpretation of the word. Generally speaking, when people hear game cg, they primarily think of visual novel illustrations. When talking about character art, it's sprite instead, those familiar with Japanese think of tachi-e. When talking about object and animal sprites, some think of game asset. Lumping all of these under a single tag is inconvenient, and especially counterintuitive when the tag of choice is called game cg.

Similarly, our definition of tachi-e as a "standing art" is also out-of-date. I know it's the literal meaning of "立ち絵", but it's not restricted to that. Look at tachi-e sitting, can you exclude game files that are functionally tachi-e just because they're not standing? There're occasionally duo tachi-e tachi-e ~2girls ~2boys, I tried to solve this by replacing them with lineup but I'm not sure if it works well. Ideally, we should also separate arts that are functionally tachi-e, vs arts that fit the literal definition, aka. stating art. I never liked how tachi-e official_art and tachi-e -official_art are lumped together. People should be able to use tachi-e like a metatag, a "find all sprite files of this game" tag. Maybe use sprite for this.

I suggest that we rework the definition of these tags based on how they're used, not their literal meaning, so they can be attributed to a specific type of game files. Otherwise they're useless.
If we need a tag to group every type of game image files, we can bring back game asset.
A new tag may be needed of the enhanced/promoted art of a character's tachi-e populated by gacha games. Since they don't fit in any of the older terms.

tl;dr: Redefined tags like game cg, tachi-e, sprite based on how they're used, not their literal meaning, so they can be attributed to a specific type of game files. Create new tags if needed.

Updated by magcolo

this isn't an area i'm very knowledgeable about, but my two cents as an outsider:

the name game cg certainly strikes me as a catch-all tag for game assets. i would not mind having a tag that encompasses full background illustrations extracted from vns, but that change should not come in the form of redefining a tag that would then have a less-than-obvious name compared to its actual meaning.

might i propose creating a visual novel illustration metatag?

When talking about visual novels, a "CG" refers to a full screen art. As opposed to the standard background with overlaid tachi-e. I assumed that's what game cg was for.

If the tag encompasses any asset then it's weird to be using the specific term "cg".

Spatula22 said:

When talking about visual novels,

i feel like that's the issue though. our site's focus isn't on visual novels, so it's strange to have a one-off tag where it's simply assumed that it will be understood by users that the use of a term is within a specific niche. computer graphics is a much wider field than just vns.

wingdings said:

i feel like that's the issue though. our site's focus isn't on visual novels, so it's strange to have a one-off tag where it's simply assumed that it will be understood by users that the use of a term is within a specific niche. computer graphics is a much wider field than just vns.

Danbooru doesn't really host screenshots, so a lot of the stuff from games being uploaded to Danbooru are from visual novels or games with visual novel-style gameplay (which many Japanese games have).

Just look through the game cg tag. It is mostly VN-style CGs. With a few tachi-e smattered about, and a few of those full body character arts like post #9926963 (that might still be considered tachi-e ??).

Using the term game asset would avoid any confusion.

I've always assumed that people know that game cg generally refers to the traditional visual novel style full screen illustration. This is because traditional visual novels are mainly displayed in two ways, tachi-e on universal backgrounds, and cutscene inserts, aka. what game cg is known for. Most mobile games are still functioning in this way, and adapted the same terminology. I was surprised at first to see that a lot of people are interpreting it as a catch-all tag for any kind of game file.

I suggest we do something like this:

TenaciousTurtleDucks said:

I feel like the name would be a bit limiting, since visual novels aren't the only type of game that can have event CGs. What about something like in game Illustration?

The story player of mobile games and other genres of pc/console games are still conveniently referred as visual novel mode, because it's the same thing. I think it shouldn't be too hard to understand? The other proposed names like visual novel illustration, visual novel CG, in game Illustration all sound like worse names.

Updated by magcolo

The definition has been "taken from a video game" since someone first wrote a wiki.

If it's related to the style of the image rather than just being an asset (computer generatedness aside) then it shouldn't be a metatag, probably?

magcolo said:

I've always assumed that people know that game cg generally refers to the traditional visual novel style full screen illustration. This is because traditional visual novels are mainly displayed in two ways, tachi-e on universal backgrounds, and cutscene inserts, aka. what game cg is known for. Most mobile games are still functioning in this way, and adapted the same terminology. I was surprised at first to see that a lot of people are interpreting it as a catch-all tag for any kind of game file.

To be completely honest, my interpretation was "any image extracted directly from the game's files". The idea the tag was for anything more restrictive flew completely over my head, and even now I'd still prefer to use the tag like that. But that's why we're having this conversation, as clearly there's demand for a more traditional visual novel CG tag, which game cg was supposed to be the tag for. I do think there should be a tag for VN CG styles, nonetheless, because such is incredibly useful to have on hand, even as a non-VN reader.

I suggest we do something like this:

I'd personally be alright with this. I still propose the name "visual novel CG" as opposed to just game CG to avoid potential mistag issues, but considering a lot of mobile games have CGs like this (I myself hoping to get ahold of some from Shining Nikki at some point...), the name might need work..."Cutscene CG", anyone?

I'd assume we'd want game cg (as it's called right now) to imply game asset, using this style. Not sure about tachi-e or sprite, which I am not about to argue be switched to meta or anything, as those tags are already being used for parodies/fake sprites too, which we obviously wouldn't want.

Hm...What a conundrum...

I don't personally upload game assets but I always assumed game cg was just for anything that didn't count as a tachi-e including stuff visual novel cgs but also things like the 4komas in the pool Blank User referenced as well as backgrounds like post #9919606

magcolo said:

I've always assumed that people know that game cg generally refers to the traditional visual novel style full screen illustration. This is because traditional visual novels are mainly displayed in two ways, tachi-e on universal backgrounds, and cutscene inserts, aka. what game cg is known for. Most mobile games are still functioning in this way, and adapted the same terminology. I was surprised at first to see that a lot of people are interpreting it as a catch-all tag for any kind of game file.

I suggest we do something like this:

The story player of mobile games and other genres of pc/console games are still conveniently referred as visual novel mode, because it's the same thing. I think it shouldn't be too hard to understand? The other proposed names like visual novel illustration, visual novel CG, in game Illustration all sound like worse names.

I think a game asset tag is a good idea but implying sprite and tachi-e to game asset wouldn't work because they're not all game assets. There are a lot of vtuber model images in tachi-e for example, post #3466244 which is even used in the wiki.

tamuraakemi said:

The definition has been "taken from a video game" since someone first wrote a wiki.

Let's not refer to the wiki as a reliable source, that thing hasn't ever been revised since its creation.

tamuraakemi said:

If it's related to the style of the image rather than just being an asset (computer generatedness aside) then it shouldn't be a metatag, probably?

Full-screen illustrations are common, I don't think it's exactly a style, rather a functionality, like how novel illustration is also a metatag.

wispydreamer said:

I don't personally upload game assets but I always assumed game cg was just for anything that didn't count as a tachi-e including stuff visual novel cgs but also things like the 4komas in the pool Blank User referenced as well as backgrounds like post #9919606

I understand the confusion with stuff like sprites, but tagging 4koma as game cg is really too far. Backgrounds can potentially be a new tag as mentioned. (you replied before I edited my previous post)

I think a game asset tag is a good idea but implying sprite and tachi-e to game asset wouldn't work because they're not all game assets. There are a lot of vtuber model images in tachi-e for example, post #3466244 which is even used in the wiki.

I forgot about those, then maybe just sprite? I still wish we can make a difference between officially used tachi-e and generic "standing art".

Knowledge_Seeker said:

I'd personally be alright with this. I still propose the name "visual novel CG" as opposed to just game CG to avoid potential mistag issues, but considering a lot of mobile games have CGs like this, the name might need work..."Cutscene CG", anyone?

Actually most of the time it's just "CG", maybe "story CG", e.g. lore posts, while "game CG" is a more technical term, e.g. data mine posts and archive sites. Not a fan of the other names.

Updated by magcolo

The issue here is that "CG" in the tag name never actually referred to "computer graphics" broadly, it was a borrowed term from Japanese game terminology (illustrations for events, commonly compiled in a CG gallery that can be viewed independently after initially unlocking them). This is most common in ADV/visual novels but essentially any game with 2D art (and even a few with 3D stills) use this term. In mobage/gacha this is less consistent in my experience but I've also seen illustrations associated with cards/characters referred to as CG. The tag got kind of ruined at some point and I personally didn't have the willpower or energy to argue the case for keeping the old definition.

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